Math and Creative Writing

[alanajoli]

Having read the post from Whedonesque written by Joss Whedon about how many people don't consider writing to be "work," fellow Browncoat Nitsan (aka Snackyette) wrote:

"I'm a mathematician, and what I do each day is in many ways similar to what a writer does. I go to my office and I sit, think, write some things down that other people haven't thought of yet (hopefully), think some more, read something to give me background or ideas, think some more, write some more, and then listen to someone else talk about what they're thinking about.

"Most people find it incomprehensible that I think about math and come up with new math for a living, kind of like making a living out of thinking about stories and coming up with new ones."

I've often compared musicians, theater folks, and visual artists to writers, but it had never before occurred to me to think of math as a creative profession. The idea enchanted me so much that I asked Nitsan if I could pass it along. It also makes me wonder what other professions I've taken for granted that are both work--and creative!

Comments

[holmes-iv.livejournal.com]

<raises hand>
Or at least, we like to think it is. ;-)

Thing is, Software also (like writing) has sub-disciplines attached to it that are uncreative as hell (I refer here to the local equivalent of fixing other people's grammar and spelling, which is what I'm doing this evening). And those are the parts that are easy to explain to people who don't have a background in the field.

We also have our share of crack-smoking higher-ups who think that it's all strictly mechanical, and that nine women can etc., and that you improve people's productivity by making them scared about deadlines. The similarity ends when you consider salaries, though (he says, thankfully).

[alanajoli.livejournal.com]

I just did the obit on John W. Backus for a series called Newsmakers. (For those in the audience who, like me until last month or so, haven't heard of him, he's the guy who led the team that developed Fortran, which is basically the forerunner to all software in existence.) I totally believe in the creativity of software designers and computer speak. Although in everything I've read, technological creativity almost always comes out of laziness... Backus himself said that he was too lazy to want to code each computer individually, so he went about finding an easier way!

I also kind of love the idea of creativity from laziness in general. :)

[plura.livejournal.com]

my parents won't shut up about how much creativity math permits. they think that if they could get it into my head that math has room for creativity that i'll become a theoretical physicist like i very well should. heh.

[alanajoli.livejournal.com]

If you were a theorhetical physicist, you'd discover the mathematical expression of myth. The world might explode.

[plura.livejournal.com]

it already exists. e = mc2.

[alanajoli.livejournal.com]

Someday I'll have to get you to draw a diagram for me of how the conservation of mass relates to myth (because it's not an intuitive connection to me *g*).

[plura.livejournal.com]

i actually drew one up last week. i'll send it to you sometime to-day, when i have a chance to convert it to my diagramming program on my computer. been meaning to do that, anyway.

[alanajoli.livejournal.com]

You're amazing!

[amieroserotruck.livejournal.com]

Don't know if you knew this, but I am also an engineer. I always loved math and science and was puzzled when people said that writing was completely different. Same thought process for both, different results. Thanks for the quote, I need to pass that on to a mathmatician friend!

[alanajoli.livejournal.com]

I didn't! I think on the one hand engineers get a bad rap (ala Dilbert)... on the other hand, wasn't Scott Adams an engineer before starting his comic? ;)

I wonder if some of the divide between the sciences-as-creative and the arts-as-creative comes from the associations with art-as-fluff. (I went through college being termed a fluff major for my focus in creative writing. That was mostly in good fun, considering one of the people who ribbed me was in poli-sci, and really, how did he have room to talk?) I wonder if the idea that science is Important means that we arty types have to defend our profession by claiming creativity as solely belonging to us. Interesting fodder... :)

[amieroserotruck.livejournal.com]

Yes, he was. That comic is probably the most-put-up piece of paper in any engineering office. :) And they aren't that far of a stretch, either!

That is interesting. I double majored, but not everyone in engineering knew that my other major was writing. I think you might be on to something, the art community tired of being ribbed for that and thus wanting to keep it exclusive to a point. It seems like the line is becoming blured now, though, especially with computer graphics.

[alanajoli.livejournal.com]

I have to suspect it's about validation in some way--but yeah, the computer techno-arts are definitely blurring the line. (And video game music! And interactive story telling! Some of the best creative stuff is going on in video games... Which, academically speaking, aren't even the same value as "fine arts.")

[amieroserotruck.livejournal.com]

Hey, not sure what you had in mind for the guest blogging, but maybe this is worth expanding.

While I don't play video games (I get WAY too addicted!) I love watching other people play them for the reasons you cited. There is a merge now gonig on between art and science that probably hasn't existed since DaVinci.

I probably would have gone into movie special effects had I graduated 10 years earlier. When I graduated in 1997, computer effects were taking over, and I despise programmign (I'm more hardware electronics), so I knew even if I got a job in robotics, wouldn't have work for long. :(

[alanajoli.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about this. I was really planning more for the mythology angle for guest blogs... but if this is something that interests you, I'd love for you to write about it. :) It's definitely something that fits with the kinds of things I talk about over here, and I'd love to hear what more you have to say!

[amieroserotruck.livejournal.com]

Oh good grief, that's right, it WAS myth. Actually, I don't mind talking about that at all because I'm writing a story about unicorns and I'm balancing using traditional legends and inventing some of my own and I think that could be a fun thing to talk about. But if you want to revive this discussion for a change I can do that too.

[alanajoli.livejournal.com]

OOooh, unicorn stories. Awesome. I'd love to have you write about that--and then if you want to come back and guest blog again sometime, we'll talk about video games as art. :)

[amieroserotruck.livejournal.com]

Shounds good! Just let me know when you want to put me on schedule for blogging.

[alanajoli.livejournal.com]

I've asked a bunch of people to write them, but most wanted to wait 'til the end of the semester/deadline/page proofs/etc. I'll have to send out little reminders coming up soon.

Which is to say, my plan is to "stockpile" them once they start coming in, and then post them on a once-a-week basis.

[amieroserotruck.livejournal.com]

Good idea. I'll try to whip one up in January, after the holidays but before I register my thesis.

[wildly-hopeful.livejournal.com]

I absolutely love that!!! I never before thought of math and writing being so similar either. I suppose that would be because I find myself drawn more towards words than numbers. How intriguing!

[alanajoli.livejournal.com]

I was so glad she posted that to my mailing list, because I had never considered it before. I'm completely enchanted by the idea. :)